Volumetrics_Isosurfaces : davidflame ACHPostma firebug hakujin woz2002 Artistken Armands hillrunner edegiuli KrummenHacker Frauke mojobug dreamer dmytry
mojovox.pandromeda.com has set a flag to Volumetrics_Isosurfaces
mojovox.pandromeda.com has set channel members only flag to Volumetrics_Isosurfaces
mojovox.pandromeda.com has set key lock flag to Volumetrics_Isosurfaces
davidflame: hiya
15.18.42 Artistken: they are very damaging to things on the ground
15.19.01 dmytry: yes....
15.19.03 Artistken: sometimes they build up on the ground for a short time
15.19.21 dmytry: big ones can make holes in the glass just like shots
15.19.23 mojobug: Big Hard Snowflakes...
15.19.35 Artistken: they are usually the result of a very high energy storm
15.19.37 dmytry: snowflake on steroids
15.19.44 mojobug: LOL
15.19.52 Artistken: we have many here in Florida in summer
15.19.59 edegiuli: hail is rain that gets re-frozen in the sky.. the bigger it is, the more times it has been re-frozen
15.20.05 KrummenHacker: So we nned Hak to make the animation of the hailstones the fall on cars and marks them with bumps.
15.20.09 Artistken: lightning capital of the world
15.20.31 Artistken: many thousands of strikes in an hour
15.20.33 mojobug: Ya think, Ken? lol
15.21.05 mojobug: My house has been hit 3 times!
15.21.12 hakujin: Those Swiss - 1,000 words for 'snow' but no word for 'hail'...;)
15.21.14 firebug: hail often come before tornadoes
15.21.24 Frauke: I am away.
15.21.36 dmytry: snowflakes typically start with vapour and hail typically starts with liquid water...
15.21.44 dmytry: or overcooled water
15.22.06 Artistken: so I thought dmytry plugin to be good for making ice balls inthe atmosphere of a pplanet with terrain still visible
15.22.10 KrummenHacker: Hey hak, we name this "Grele" in French. I don't know the name in German, Italian or Rumansch
15.22.35 Frauke: Hagel in dutch
15.22.41 hakujin: http://tierra.rediris.es/bloquesdehielo/enlaces.html
15.23.51 KrummenHacker: Hak, you should remember that my mother tongue is C++ and there is no equivalent word for "hail" in that language.
15.24.02 hakujin: rofl
15.24.09 hakujin: :))
15.24.17 dmytry: use boost
15.24.19 mojobug: 1001000100011111000
15.24.31 hakujin: hahaha
15.24.36 dmytry: boost::hail<typename T, typename U>
15.24.59 firebug: www.weatherstock.com/hailcat3.html
15.26.11 dmytry: so.... let's begin...
15.26.23 Artistken: sorry didn't mean to get everyone sidetracked.
15.26.32 KrummenHacker: My fault!
15.27.27 dmytry: First question was "What is isosurfaces".
15.28.21 dmytry: Isosurface it's surface where value of some 3D texture (function) is constant
15.28.51 dmytry: Somewhat like shoreline is line where height of land is equal to water height
15.29.09 dmytry: (was that clear?)
15.29.35 dreamer: the answer is no :p
15.29.46 dreamer: at least for me :)
15.30.08 edegiuli: imagine having a smooth function that gives you a value (number) at every point in space. when that value is 0, you get a surface.
15.30.22 edegiuli: when the value is >>0, you are far from the surface
15.30.29 edegiuli: and when it is <<0, you are inside the surface
15.30.33 dreamer: ok
15.30.52 edegiuli: it is quite different from the mojoworld displacement paradigm
15.30.58 firebug: http://www.mathworks.com/access/helpdesk/help/techdoc/visualize/chvolvi9.html Isosurfaces are constructed by creating a surface within the volume that has the same value at each vertex. Isosurface plots are similar to contour plots in that they both indicate where values are equal.
15.31.40 dmytry: Actually value doesn't have to be necessarily 0 but in my isosurfaces, it's 0
15.32.10 dmytry: Analogy: Let you have water with varying temperature
15.32.26 dmytry: Where temperature <0 (in celsius of course) , you have ice
15.32.35 firebug: I have always understood it as being able to devide the cube many times and still ahve the same "quality of surface.
15.32.35 dmytry: Where it is >0 , you have water
15.33.16 dreamer: ok
15.33.35 dreamer: thanks to the 3 of you to take time to explain :)
15.34.03 dmytry: So, with that knowledge, let's start with blank planet
15.34.22 firebug: other word voxel.. Dmy would this be correct
15.34.33 dmytry: not really....
15.34.42 firebug: then I do not think I understand
15.34.44 dmytry: it's implementations details and is unrelated....
15.35.00 firebug: I have never gone that deep
15.35.06 dmytry: i'm talking about this thing in general, from user's standpoint
15.35.12 firebug: o.k.
15.35.15 hakujin: <let's all keep side-discussions to a minimum>
15.35.48 dmytry: actually it will help me with being clear in tutorial/documentation
15.35.59 hillrunner: thanks for explaining, dmytry :)
15.36.00 dmytry: i mean, side-comments
15.36.08 hakujin: OK
15.36.59 firebug: yes for colisions, tho
15.37.13 dmytry: So, click on "atmosphere"
15.37.44 dmytry: <insert that cloudy-like icon (for inclusion into tutorial]>
15.37.56 firebug: I do not see atmosphere.. sorry new
15.38.07 dreamer: the cloud icon
15.38.10 hakujin: icon looks like a cloud
15.38.11 Frauke: so if I have this right: lets say isosurface value is 0 C, you have a heating element in the bottom right corner of a water tank and a cooling element in the top left, your surface is the place where the water is exactly 0 C...?
15.38.25 dmytry: yes
15.38.27 firebug: ah sky
15.38.59 dmytry: cloudy icon is right under moon icon
15.39.18 firebug: called sky
15.39.27 hakujin: Sky Editor
15.39.38 firebug: yes
15.39.56 dmytry: hmmmmm.... internally, looking from SDK, it's atmosphere... lol
15.40.06 firebug: go figgure
15.40.11 dreamer: mojonauts like to complicate a bit everything, so we have changed all the names to makes it more challenging
15.40.21 hakujin: lots of things like that in MJW:)
15.40.42 dmytry: in either case, click on "cloudy atmosphere" and select "volumetrics"
15.40.53 dmytry: sky must turn black
15.41.19 hillrunner: ok, turns black !
15.41.22 dmytry: now, open parameter list of Volumetrics
15.41.32 firebug: noir
15.41.45 hillrunner: :)
15.41.48 dmytry: click on "none" to the right of 0
15.41.59 dmytry: and select surface
15.42.24 dmytry: click on shape
15.42.40 dmytry: and select "texture"
15.43.01 dmytry: from menu, "New Texture"
15.43.12 dmytry: click on (T)
15.43.22 dmytry: sky must change color again
15.43.24 hakujin: 'shape'? where?
15.43.42 dmytry: first parameter that can be function
15.43.44 dreamer: unfold 0/surface
15.43.45 dmytry: in Surface
15.43.47 edegiuli: Shape is in the Surface submenu
15.43.54 dmytry: subplugin
15.44.00 firebug: hold on
15.44.06 firebug: I see no shape
15.44.33 dreamer: click on arrow near surface
15.44.37 hakujin: I must be missing something
15.44.47 dmytry: hold on. I'm making screenshot
15.45.21 dreamer: click the arrow just under "max steps"
15.45.22 KrummenHacker: Have you made a "Surface" on the 0 subplugin of Volumetrics
15.45.39 firebug: have surface in 0 open see no shape
15.45.48 hakujin: No - forgot to mention 'Surface', Dmy
15.46.07 hakujin: in DDLB, FB
15.46.22 dreamer: it should be just above diffuse firebug
15.46.46 hakujin: 0 > Surface
15.47.08 firebug: I see surface, wigget texture function
15.47.59 hakujin: Is it a UI thing, anyone?
15.48.07 dreamer: no
15.48.16 dreamer: screenshot coming :)
15.48.19 hakujin: I can see it now
15.49.13 hakujin: There's that thing about 'simple'/'advanced' UI settings in Pref. file
15.49.17 firebug: had to go up and read.. that will teach me to get behind
15.49.29 dreamer: you might be right hak
15.50.08 dreamer: go to editors > preferences firebug
15.50.28 dmytry: http://dmytry.ancientspledge.com/en/mojoworld/session/screenshot_1.png
15.50.31 hakujin: page 95 in User Guide
15.50.34 dreamer: then where it says generator ui mode
15.50.41 dmytry: hmmm....
15.50.45 dreamer: choose normal
15.51.31 KrummenHacker: It has nothing to do with the UI mode. I just tried it in simple mode. The parameter is present.
15.51.37 firebug: I am already there I am looking for the texture new texture thing
15.51.46 hakujin: ok:)
15.52.08 dmytry: so, Hakujin, got it?
15.52.08 dreamer: near the dices on top
15.52.15 hakujin: yep:)
15.52.24 firebug: I got it
15.53.08 dmytry: sky must again change color into color closely resembling color of dialog with error
15.53.26 firebug: sky black
15.53.28 dmytry: (dunno how that color is named... )
15.53.37 dmytry: click on (T)
15.53.38 hakujin: burnt orange
15.53.53 firebug: rust
15.54.20 firebug: glasses kinda help, she says as she puts them on
15.54.25 firebug: :-)
15.54.30 firebug: larger type
15.54.44 firebug: I am with you
15.56.48 dmytry: uploading screenshot...
15.57.04 dmytry: http://dmytry.ancientspledge.com/en/mojoworld/session/screenshot_2.png
15.57.31 hillrunner: ok
15.57.49 firebug: yes I am
15.57.55 hakujin: ok
15.57.59 dmytry: now, move camera up
15.58.09 dmytry: yes
15.58.35 firebug: great polyons ... random
15.59.09 KrummenHacker: What do you mean? change altitude or look above?
15.59.26 dmytry: put camera at altitude 6.5km
15.59.34 hakujin: 6.75kM
15.59.42 dmytry: and render.
15.59.44 KrummenHacker: ok
16.00.12 dreamer: M and N key to change altitude firebug
16.00.30 firebug: thanks, these hot keys are key LOL
16.00.47 dmytry: so you get some strange land with some flat capping
16.00.58 hakujin: or, edit directly in Nav Console
16.01.14 dreamer: cool dmytry
16.01.45 hillrunner: these landforms are isometric surfaces ?
16.01.57 dmytry: not isometric
16.02.02 hillrunner: oh ok :)
16.02.17 dmytry: i should have said since beginning "implicit surfaces"... lol
16.02.34 dmytry: sounds smarter
16.02.34 dreamer: is the isosurface the whole of the land, or only the flat part?
16.02.40 dmytry: whole
16.02.44 dmytry: everything you see
16.02.48 dreamer: ok
16.02.58 firebug: nice
16.03.16 firebug: how controlable is the planer surface on top
16.03.21 firebug: deformable
16.03.22 dmytry: (If somebody want more speed, he can turn off normal mojo terrain)
16.03.47 dmytry: Now, some things aboutn implementation. This texture we created is monofractal
16.03.49 hillrunner: isosurfaces, sorry :o)
16.04.06 Armands: Will planet surface interact with isosurface?
16.04.16 dmytry: yes
16.04.37 firebug: :-)
16.04.46 dreamer: do they blend well when you add displacments, or is there artifacts issues?
16.04.49 edegiuli: but shadows from isosurface are not cast on the planet surface (for now)
16.05.05 dmytry: yes
16.05.24 Armands: I see some boolean operation for now :)
16.05.41 dmytry: So: We just created monofractal that defines "temperature" in space
16.05.57 dmytry: somewhere it is above 0, somewhere below
16.06.06 dmytry: where it is below, we have solid
16.06.14 dmytry: but it extends to infinity
16.06.45 dmytry: and because it would not be really useful to have that solid thing in all out solar system
16.07.04 dmytry: there is kinda container
16.07.17 dmytry: it is contained between lowest altitude and highest altitude
16.07.30 dmytry: (parameters of Surface)
16.08.03 dmytry: these should be adjusted to contain what you want to create
16.10.10 dmytry: now, let's make more interesting shape.
16.10.21 firebug: hang on. ?
16.10.47 firebug: is this navigate able with the underhangs..
16.10.55 firebug: overhangs
16.11.06 dmytry: uber-hangs
16.11.33 firebug: is this surface like swiss cheese in the middle
16.11.39 dmytry: Yes
16.11.44 firebug: :-)
16.11.55 firebug: now how do you control it
16.11.57 dmytry: and on top we have a cut of this surface
16.12.09 dmytry: Now we'll make something more interesting...
16.12.17 firebug: so you sculpt out a outer form
16.12.22 firebug: boolean
16.12.26 firebug: maybe
16.12.27 dmytry: yes
16.12.33 firebug: hum
16.12.43 dmytry: AND of that thing and volume between lowest radius and highest radius
16.12.46 firebug: what about imported model
16.13.08 dmytry: WE'll be making more interesting shape now :)
16.13.16 firebug: with a sine wave you could get direction sculpting
16.13.23 firebug: neat
16.13.31 dmytry: Replace "monofractal" with "noise"
16.13.33 firebug: what was that
16.14.04 firebug: why is the step scale running when you click on the panel
16.14.19 dmytry: that's auto-adjustments :)
16.14.36 dmytry: I made version where it sticks, but it wasn't really better...
16.14.46 dmytry: Replace monofractal with noise
16.15.00 firebug: smooth
16.15.01 dmytry: also, turn your sun
16.15.25 dmytry: (optionally)
16.15.52 firebug: where are you thinking the sun orbit position to be
16.15.53 dmytry: now, replace "
16.16.21 dmytry: perlin
16.16.27 dmytry: with sparse convolution
16.17.18 firebug: go JP
16.17.52 firebug: although that had more surface artifacts...
16.18.27 firebug: alt 6.7
16.18.29 dmytry: hm
16.18.32 dmytry: some noise
16.18.41 dmytry: doesn't really matter
16.19.06 dmytry: Now, edit output curve
16.19.33 dmytry: curve in output control, i mean
16.19.48 dreamer: i suspect we are going for a sharp curve :)
16.20.01 dmytry: flip it
16.20.25 dreamer: horizontally?
16.20.31 dmytry: doesn't matter
16.20.44 firebug: fabulous
16.20.55 dmytry: set min output to -1
16.21.01 firebug: you are getting to the molecular level
16.21.15 firebug: I see hail or rain
16.21.36 dmytry: set min output to -1
16.21.38 KrummenHacker: What is hail? :-)
16.22.08 dmytry: Explanation:
16.22.16 hakujin: grele
16.23.01 dmytry: You know how sparse convolutions look
16.23.37 dmytry: Kinda sum of hills
16.24.08 firebug: I'm not looking at hill I have a layer of balls
16.24.19 firebug: is that what I am to have
16.24.28 dmytry: yes, that's what you should have
16.24.32 firebug: good.
16.24.33 dmytry: i'm continuing
16.24.41 firebug: o.k.
16.24.49 dreamer: :)
16.24.58 dmytry: Sparse convolution noise with flipped curve made values be <0 in that balls
16.25.03 dmytry: and >0 outside
16.25.11 dmytry: Now, edit sparse convolution noise
16.25.24 hillrunner: layer of balls me too
16.25.41 dmytry: yes, that's what you should have
16.25.59 dmytry: In 2D you get circles, in 3D you get balls
16.26.40 dmytry: Now, edit sparse convolution noise and change "splat kernel" to "cone"
16.26.45 firebug: they are beautiful
16.26.57 edegiuli: S^(n-1) :)
16.27.17 firebug: I do not do math
16.27.27 firebug: concepts yes math no
16.27.35 dmytry: You still get almost same thing
16.27.44 hakujin: yes
16.27.54 dmytry: That's because, "smooth cone", "cone", it's for flatlanders
16.28.00 dmytry: and we're now in 3D
16.28.04 dmytry: real 3D
16.28.17 Frauke: less smooth where the balls toutch
16.28.32 dmytry: Exactly
16.28.36 hakujin: it's awesome, Dmy
16.28.49 dmytry: That's because with smooth cone, temperature changed more smoothly
16.28.56 dmytry: than with cone
16.29.13 dmytry: (don't try "dish" otherwise most likely will crash)
16.29.50 dmytry: Now, for better remembering of what you are learning, let's make a material for them...
16.30.00 dmytry: shiny material
16.30.30 dmytry: In "Surface" you can see "Material" sub-thing
16.30.43 dmytry: Select simple surf. material
16.30.53 dmytry: Open it
16.31.10 dmytry: (Note: reflections and refractions is not working in this version)
16.31.35 dmytry: Make "Specular" be white
16.31.40 firebug: would that be the M
16.32.11 dreamer: 0 > surface > material
16.32.11 firebug: found it
16.32.17 firebug: thanks
16.32.38 dmytry: Note: my shininess works differently...
16.32.44 Frauke: Step Scale keeps changing
16.32.51 dreamer: better i hope :p
16.32.55 dmytry: yes
16.33.01 dreamer: cool :)
16.33.32 dmytry: i made version where it stick to some value when it adjusted, BUT the problem is that I haven't tested it well.
16.33.40 dmytry: and it can break badly
16.34.01 firebug: I get shiney balls is that correct
16.34.01 dmytry: Try to set shininess to something like 10
16.34.32 firebug: now with larger spec highlight
16.34.40 Armands: For what are diffuse value in Surface itself?
16.34.52 dmytry: that's obsolete thing
16.35.03 dmytry: It still works when there's no material assigned
16.35.10 Armands: ok
16.36.00 edegiuli: dmytry is it the same speed using diffuse or "simple material"?
16.36.00 dmytry: Now, we'll process further to isosurface shaping and controlling
16.36.24 dmytry: maybe there's sub-percent difference in speeds
16.36.31 edegiuli: ok
16.36.40 dmytry: but it might increase
16.37.02 dmytry: for complex shapes, most of time is spent finding intersection...
16.37.06 edegiuli: right.
16.37.19 hillrunner: why the higher spheres are flat at their top ?
16.37.40 firebug: spent finding intersection...makes sense
16.37.55 dmytry: If our content were not limited to space between spheres,
16.38.02 dmytry: it would extend to infinity
16.38.10 dmytry: and we would end up in darkness
16.38.28 dmytry: because of shadows...
16.38.30 firebug: got to always let that light in
16.38.42 dreamer: is it limited by spheres or planes?
16.39.04 dmytry: it is limited between lower altitude and higher altitude
16.39.21 Frauke: would parameter bombs limit the sides?
16.39.23 dmytry: and because it's planet, that is actually spheres...
16.39.25 dreamer: i mean, is it space between 2 spheres or planes?
16.39.27 hillrunner: ok
16.39.29 dreamer: ok
16.39.41 dmytry: between 2 planetary-sized spheres
16.40.07 dmytry: one is at 0, other at 6000 (can be changed)
16.40.21 dmytry: Now, let's play with shaping again.
16.40.31 dreamer: so with careful adjustments, we can use it to make bouldeers on the ground for example?
16.40.35 dmytry: Is it okay to go function graphs now?
16.40.40 Frauke: do volumetrics inside a parameter bomb have cutoff sides?
16.40.54 firebug: alt 5.5 WOW
16.40.54 dmytry: not yet
16.41.09 dmytry: (to Frauke)
16.41.20 Frauke: ah, thanks
16.41.26 dmytry: that would require making special parameter bombs
16.42.23 firebug: would be handy
16.42.28 dmytry: So, is it okay if next shape we will make in function graph?
16.42.35 hillrunner: ok
16.42.38 dreamer: oh I just realized there is no displacement widget
16.42.40 KrummenHacker: ok
16.42.44 Armands: ok
16.42.46 firebug: I will try go slow.. for us new people
16.42.53 hillrunner: yes, agree ;)
16.43.00 dmytry: because in function graphs these things make more sense
16.43.07 firebug: for who?
16.43.10 dmytry: normal UI was created with planet in mind
16.43.14 hakujin: what are these black areas: http://users.easystreet.com/buddycat/workShop/v01.jpg
16.43.19 hakujin: shadows?
16.43.22 Frauke: math junkies
16.43.45 dmytry: and when you use it to make isosurfaces,
16.43.54 firebug: shadows work in iso surfaces just not planet?
16.43.56 dmytry: it becomes harder to understand for anyone
16.44.09 dmytry: yes, shadows are not cast onto planet
16.44.26 dmytry: (that will be fixed)
16.44.30 firebug: good
16.44.45 firebug: that would be great.. pardon my manners
16.45.06 firebug: I am used to programmers that LOVE to be hit over the head
16.45.08 dreamer: Will a displacement widget be available in the future?
16.45.36 dmytry: I'm coming to explanation why it will not be needed at all
16.45.47 dreamer: ok :)
16.45.53 edegiuli: isosurfaces can do more than your displacements could ever do :)
16.46.07 dreamer: you have all my attention :)
16.46.27 dmytry: So, go to shape texture, click on the "texture leaf" and select "convert to function"
16.46.58 dmytry: open the function graph (by clicking on "F")
16.47.28 dmytry: delete so-called "texture color control"
16.47.37 dmytry: (select and press "del")
16.47.51 firebug: I am lost
16.48.23 firebug: is that the same shape in volumetrics.. i just have a wigget now
16.48.26 dreamer: 0 > surface > shape
16.48.37 dreamer: click on the "texture leaf" and select "convert to function"
16.48.46 dreamer: open the function graph (by clicking on "F")
16.49.20 Frauke: check spelling before copy&paste
16.49.34 firebug: I just have a wigget
16.49.44 firebug: sorry ede I was talking to dreamer
16.49.50 hakujin: click & hold DDLB
16.50.05 dreamer: can you go to function in simple mode dmytry?
16.50.22 KrummenHacker: no problem.
16.51.11 dmytry: ones who haven't did that already might need to toggle UI mode to normal...
16.51.24 dreamer: do this firebug
16.51.27 dreamer: go to editors > preferences firebug
16.51.41 dmytry: screenshot: http://dmytry.ancientspledge.com/en/mojoworld/session/screenshot_3.png
16.51.54 dmytry: just after deletion of "texture color control"
16.52.07 dreamer: in generator UI mode, choose normal
16.52.56 firebug: I see it but when I convert it I only get a single shape node
16.53.11 dmytry: hmmmmmmmm
16.53.13 KrummenHacker: Firebug, maybe you turned the "Shape" texture back to widget.
16.53.33 firebug: when I clicked back on the window that was what was there
16.53.41 KrummenHacker: before converting it to function
16.54.04 firebug: maybe
16.54.16 dmytry: what are differences between your things and my screenshot?
16.54.34 dreamer: she has a widget in shape now
16.54.53 firebug: I go shape -> function-> and get a single shape node
16.55.06 firebug: not the graph
16.55.10 hakujin: click & hold semi-circle icon next to Shape
16.55.11 firebug: you showed
16.55.22 dmytry: okay, doesn't really matter, we'll fix it up now
16.55.49 firebug: I am holding the semi-circle and pulled down to function
16.56.13 dreamer: don't do that
16.56.15 Frauke: go to shape > texture and change the texture leaf to a function. not Shape itself.
16.56.18 hakujin: start with Texture > New, then Function from there
16.56.20 dreamer: click on the T before
16.56.31 dmytry: stop
16.56.43 firebug: I lost it
16.56.45 dmytry: let's just make it again in that Function Graph Editor
16.56.52 dreamer: yes
16.56.56 firebug: That would be interesting
16.57.30 dreamer: :)
16.57.37 dmytry: Get to that function graph editor, click on menu and select Create New Node
16.58.07 firebug: I have new texture?
16.58.28 dmytry: select Leaf Nodes on the left
16.58.46 dmytry: (in "Create Node" dialog)
16.58.48 dreamer: :)
16.59.22 dmytry: on the right, scroll down and select "World Position"
16.59.32 dmytry: and click on "OK"
17.00.02 firebug: I am with you
17.00.09 dmytry: You should see new node appearing
17.00.15 firebug: got it
17.00.44 dmytry: Then, similarly create "noise" , it's in "Fractals" category
17.01.19 firebug: got noise
17.01.23 dmytry: then select basis function to be Sparse Convolution
17.01.29 dmytry: (select noise)
17.01.50 dmytry: when you select noise on the right you get all same as in normal UI
17.02.10 firebug: I done, Sparse convolution done
17.02.16 dmytry: Connect output of "World Position" as shown in screenshot
17.02.40 dmytry: drag from that thingy on world pos to that left thingy on noise
17.02.53 firebug: great left
17.03.09 dmytry: also, you can drag 'em around to arrange 'em in eye-pleasing way
17.03.15 firebug: I have closed the browser.. too many windows
17.03.30 dmytry: http://dmytry.ancientspledge.com/en/mojoworld/session/screenshot_3.png
17.03.35 firebug: Does the graph flow from top to bottom always
17.03.42 firebug: thank for the link
17.04.13 dmytry: You can think about it as that Noise gets World Position at point where it is computed
17.04.25 firebug: o.k.
17.05.06 dmytry: Now, heres the part applicable to everyone(including ones who haven't accidentally deleted texture)
17.05.23 firebug: LOL
17.05.37 dmytry: Create "Subtract" node (it is in Math Nodes category)
17.05.43 dreamer: she still have to flip the curve
17.05.50 dmytry: no curve
17.06.03 dmytry: you should have deleted this texture color control.... with curve... :)
17.06.06 dreamer: for the sparse convolution?
17.06.12 dreamer: ok :)
17.06.14 dmytry: don't touch curves
17.06.16 dmytry: not
17.07.12 dmytry: So, you all have everything similar to this screenshot: http://dmytry.ancientspledge.com/en/mojoworld/session/screenshot_3.png
17.07.14 dmytry: ?
17.08.30 firebug: except for that subtract node (unattached)
17.08.30 dmytry: And create "Subtract" node (in Math Nodes category)
17.08.48 firebug: got it
17.08.51 hillrunner: ok
17.09.03 dmytry: connect output of subtract node to Main Value (or Shape, depending to what exactly you did)
17.09.22 dmytry: (output is that thingy on bottom
17.09.26 firebug: o.k.
17.09.31 firebug: got it
17.09.43 firebug: black
17.09.54 dmytry: Connect output of Noise to the __right__ input of subtract.
17.10.09 firebug: o.k. got it
17.10.37 dmytry: oops, my mojoworld hang up
17.10.43 dmytry: (not a plugin issue)
17.10.45 hakujin: ;)
17.10.52 dmytry: (too many programs)
17.11.01 firebug: that's what they all say :-)
17.11.07 dreamer: :)
17.11.07 hakujin: get a Mac;)
17.11.09 dmytry: no, it's okay, just had non-modal dialog...
17.11.19 dmytry: open
17.11.53 hillrunner: no more molecular shapes on preview
17.12.05 dmytry: so, connected?
17.12.17 hakujin: yes
17.12.21 hillrunner: ok
17.12.21 KrummenHacker: yes
17.12.32 dmytry: Set left side of subtract to 0.5
17.12.44 dmytry: and you must get molecular shapes back
17.13.01 hillrunner: subtract 1 ?
17.13.11 hillrunner: ok, looks fine ;)
17.13.34 firebug: a little noisy but looks good
17.13.46 dmytry: I'm unsure you are doing right thing.
17.14.03 hillrunner: no noise here
17.14.10 dmytry: as about noisiness, keep MJW selected and wait a bit
17.14.18 firebug: I have molecular structure with a banded noise texture
17.14.32 dmytry: "Adaptive" thingy that changed up and down will take care
17.14.58 firebug: where
17.15.28 dmytry: step scale that is constantly changing...
17.15.41 edegiuli: make sure RTR is on!
17.15.42 dmytry: just be in mojoworld for some 10 sec with RTR turned on
17.16.06 firebug: they are quivering
17.16.54 dmytry: i'll upload screenshot
17.17.25 dmytry: http://dmytry.ancientspledge.com/en/mojoworld/session/screenshot_4.png
17.17.38 dmytry: there, we are subtracting sparse convolution from 0.5]
17.17.54 dmytry: so where sparse convolution is 0 , we get positive "temperature"
17.18.05 dmytry: and where it is >0.5, we get negative
17.18.09 firebug: no mine are larger with the connections
17.18.39 hakujin: here's what I get: http://users.easystreet.com/buddycat/workShop/v02.jpg
17.18.57 hakujin: cool!
17.18.59 dmytry: Cool
17.19.08 dmytry: you turned planet off?
17.19.13 firebug: looks close to haks with some noise
17.19.18 dmytry: noise is these balls on other side of planet
17.19.35 hakujin: yes, planet off & 'Simple Sky'
17.19.55 hakujin: pitch -45
17.20.11 firebug: i'm lost again
17.20.35 dmytry: doesn't really matter if you have planet off or on
17.20.35 hakujin: and dark areas are shadows, right Dmytry?
17.20.41 dmytry: yes
17.20.43 hillrunner: http://olivier.cousinou.free.fr/data/6.png
17.21.31 dreamer: Look at hillrunner's that's what you should have firebug
17.21.35 hakujin: flat tops are at 6,000 meters?
17.21.41 dreamer: hillrunner picture ...
17.21.45 dmytry: yes
17.21.45 firebug: looks just like that with the noise in the texture
17.21.52 dmytry: and you have another capping at 0
17.22.02 hillrunner: alt is 6.51
17.22.16 hakujin: this is so cool!
17.22.17 dmytry: what kind of noise?
17.22.20 firebug: I just moved from 5.5 to 7.5
17.22.47 firebug: looks like robin eggs but grey
17.22.58 hakujin: that's it, FireBug
17.22.59 dmytry: hmmmm
17.23.35 hakujin: can you post a screenShot, shawna?
17.24.34 firebug: how do I make a scree snot on PC> hot key maybe
17.24.47 firebug: I can mail it to someone
17.24.56 firebug: no I can't, not on this machine
17.25.00 dreamer: in 0 > surface > material > diffuse ... do you have a grey widget or a T ?
17.25.41 firebug: I have none
17.26.15 dreamer: none = grey widget?
17.26.31 firebug: I guess it just says non
17.26.54 hakujin: that's a MJW error message
17.27.09 hakujin: you may have to save & re-start Mojo
17.27.14 firebug: yes it will not let me >open it
17.27.28 firebug: o.k. hang on
17.27.50 hakujin: non = not a number, or something like that
17.28.09 dmytry: hmmmm
17.28.13 firebug: none, restarting mjw
17.28.14 dmytry: must be mac-only
17.28.35 hillrunner: do you want I send you the mjw file ?
17.28.38 dmytry: maybe he have none in "Material" ?
17.28.53 dmytry: i can upload world file
17.29.01 hakujin: I used to get 'non' in KH_Mover when it was new
17.29.03 firebug: that would be fastest
17.29.15 firebug: it was not non but none
17.29.18 firebug: typo
17.29.26 hakujin: oops! (^_^;)
17.29.44 hakujin: I remember - it was 'nan'
17.30.01 hillrunner: dmytry do you upload or I send it to Firebug ?
17.30.17 firebug: I think he is uploading
17.31.13 hakujin: I just sent you one, FB
17.31.36 firebug: different machine.. sneekernet.. hold on
17.31.41 dmytry: http://dmytry.ancientspledge.com/en/mojoworld/session/
17.31.55 firebug: easerm
17.31.57 dmytry: oops, upload failed. hang on
17.32.03 firebug: thanks
17.32.39 dmytry: http://dmytry.ancientspledge.com/en/mojoworld/session/?C=M;O=D
17.33.42 firebug: got it all nce and shiney
17.33.48 Armands: What will happen, if we manage lowest/highest altitude with texture? To avoid flat horizont.. kinda
17.34.07 dmytry: it's currently not possible
17.34.26 dmytry: and not really needed...
17.34.43 Armands: Even with forced parameters on? or just code reason?
17.34.45 Armands: ok
17.35.07 dmytry: it would need to trace 'em as planet
17.35.17 dmytry: that would kinda neglect all benefits
17.35.31 dmytry: of having container defined
17.35.50 dmytry: it is possible to make mountains with isosurface
17.35.58 dmytry: other way
17.36.07 firebug: reverse curve?
17.36.13 dmytry: no
17.36.16 firebug: other or another
17.37.48 firebug: Dym, the file you sent me has very hard shadows.. with some noise and the connections are different :)
17.38.02 firebug: they are more blob-like than molecule-like
17.38.09 firebug: like
17.38.16 hakujin: noise is far away blobs, I think
17.38.22 dmytry: i haven't changed to cone
17.38.29 dmytry: and it's still soft cone
17.38.36 firebug: I see
17.38.47 dmytry: now, change noise to Voronoi
17.39.27 hillrunner: ok
17.39.49 dmytry: edit Voronoi and set Neighbour Mode to "1st and 2nd closest"
17.40.25 firebug: I have lost noise where is it again ?
17.40.58 dreamer: shape > function
17.41.09 dmytry: open shape
17.41.12 firebug: back in FG.. I just forgot where we were
17.41.17 dmytry: open function
17.41.43 dmytry: (i created function as texture leaf, but it is non-principal)
17.42.03 dmytry: you should get rather interesting shapes
17.42.20 hakujin: yes
17.42.46 dmytry: kinda polygon-like
17.43.43 dmytry: Now, let's melt some of it.... change left side of subtract to 0.85
17.43.45 firebug: you are brilliant
17.44.08 edegiuli: yes, dmytry is brilliant *clap clap*
17.44.20 hakujin: hear hear!
17.44.34 firebug: hang on, parental units yelling for attention
17.44.53 dmytry: We increased overall "temperature" and pieces became smaller
17.45.00 hakujin: and pretty fast rendering, too - I was afaid that it would crawl on my old G4...
17.45.31 hillrunner: yes, it render pretty fast
17.45.51 dmytry: BTW, turn planet off
17.46.15 firebug: I'm back, they just wanted to feed me
17.47.04 firebug: where would I find the subtract again
17.47.14 hakujin: yeah - for once, my wife is cooking me breakfast;)
17.47.19 dmytry: in function graph
17.47.22 dreamer: create node > math
17.47.28 dmytry: not
17.47.30 dmytry: it's already there
17.47.42 dmytry: must be already there
17.48.00 dreamer: shape > function then :)
17.48.27 hillrunner: when turning planet off, render slow :(
17.48.42 firebug: I have a bunch of floating polygon shapes.. very randomized in size
17.48.48 dmytry: because it sees through and other side of planet
17.49.01 hakujin: huh - it didn't seem to affect my render speed to turn off the planet
17.49.04 hillrunner: ok
17.49.06 dmytry: yes, that's how voronoi 1&2; looks in 3D
17.49.42 hillrunner: it affects a lot in my computer
17.50.25 dmytry: So, that was kind of quick tour on what basis functions do
17.50.47 hillrunner: very very interesting
17.50.59 dmytry: Now, let's make it change with altitude
17.51.11 firebug: o.k.
17.52.16 dmytry: We can make it "colder" at low altitudes and "hotter" at high. This way, we can get solid thing at low, and free air higher
17.52.42 hillrunner: ok
17.53.06 dmytry: Create "Altitude" node
17.53.35 firebug: o.k.
17.54.14 dreamer: quick test using ridged value as BF : http://b.1asphost.com/dorway/test.jpg
17.54.56 firebug: that's fun
17.55.23 dmytry: to get rid of artefacts, go to "surface" and set reliability to higher value
17.55.34 dmytry: also, make sure RTR is on
17.55.48 dmytry: "step scale" must be changing
17.56.07 dmytry: actually it breaks because those walls are very thin
17.56.31 dreamer: and i didn't go gently on the curve editor too :)
17.57.09 dmytry: Create "Curve" node
17.57.11 KrummenHacker: So, what to do with the altitude node?
17.57.46 dmytry: (in "Utilities" category)
17.57.49 firebug: got it
17.58.12 dmytry: connect altitude to curve
17.58.20 dmytry: edit curve
17.58.41 dmytry: set max. input to 6000
17.58.42 dreamer: which one is on the top?
17.58.53 hakujin: alt
17.59.11 dreamer: ty
17.59.35 dmytry: set min output to -2 and max output to 2
17.59.41 dmytry: don't modify curve itself
18.00.13 firebug: o.k.
18.00.48 dmytry: connect output of curve to left side of subtract
18.01.26 firebug: what alt is best
18.02.02 hakujin: why not leave output range at '0/+1'? What does '-2/+2' do?
18.02.39 dmytry: So, we will have "temperature" -2 at bottom of our volume and +2 on top
18.03.02 hakujin: hmm - I thought that the range was 0-1
18.03.11 firebug: is that what prevents the "cutting" in the upper alt
18.03.32 dmytry: that must melt (on top) all things we created so far, and must solidify everything at bottom
18.03.49 dmytry: and we must get surface in between
18.03.51 firebug: I have a bunch of fractured shapes
18.04.08 dmytry: But those are kinda landscape
18.04.20 firebug: yes
18.04.59 dmytry: I call that altitude thing "gravity function" (tho it is not really related to gravity)
18.05.05 hakujin: if you enter a value of '+1' in the subtract node, you get no output, right? So, what does '+2' do?
18.05.21 dmytry: that's kinda overkill
18.05.25 dmytry: to melt for sure
18.05.33 hakujin: ah-I see
18.05.37 dmytry: because some people are experimenting with other functions
18.05.42 hakujin: OK
18.06.36 dmytry: Now, try other basis functions in noise
18.06.45 hakujin: 'some people' must be the sekrit beta-testing monkeys that I've heard rumours about
18.06.45 firebug: I am not seeing where you are going.. gravity? or should I put that out of my mind
18.07.07 dmytry: this is key to making landscapes
18.07.14 hakujin: psuedo-gravity
18.07.28 firebug: o.k. you almost excited me
18.07.37 firebug: :)
18.07.44 hakujin: calm down, girl;)
18.07.55 firebug: I said almost
18.07.59 hakujin: :)
18.08.16 dmytry: note: If anybody is getting artifacts, change "reliability" to higher value, for example, 2
18.08.43 dmytry: and again , make sure RTR is working and it has enough time to adapt
18.09.07 firebug: where is reliability.. not a pun
18.09.16 dmytry: in surface
18.09.24 KrummenHacker: Just playing ahead: http://www.silicon-peace.com/~mojoworld/images/for_forums/volum/Blue.jpg
18.09.26 hakujin: what is 'Min Step Size"?
18.09.55 dmytry: cool
18.10.01 dmytry: some parameter
18.10.03 firebug: got it
18.10.16 dmytry: of intersection-finder
18.10.19 edegiuli: http://individual.utoronto.ca/edegiuli/volcano.jpg isosurface explosion :)
18.10.57 firebug: thats great.. but can it move :-)
18.11.14 edegiuli: sure, it is at my behest >:)
18.11.23 hakujin: is Min step size something we should leave alone, Dmy?
18.11.25 KrummenHacker: Just animate the function with MojoMove
18.11.41 firebug: yea, I am a little slow on that one
18.11.43 dmytry: min step size controls minimal step size of intersectionfinder
18.11.55 dmytry: set to zero and you can hang up
18.12.00 hakujin: OK
18.12.08 dmytry: but probably will not
18.12.13 hakujin: what is the upper range value?
18.12.43 hakujin: 1?
18.12.51 dmytry: if you decrease it, it will behave better at small shapes
18.13.02 hakujin: got it, thanx
18.13.24 hakujin: cool volcano, E
18.13.24 dmytry: currently it is set to 1cm, that is, it can "quantum-tunnel" through walls thinner than 1cm
18.13.40 hakujin: ah
18.13.46 dmytry: (figurally speaking
18.13.48 dmytry: )
18.13.58 firebug: you guys lost me.. in simple language
18.14.48 dmytry: okay, some break.... i need to eat.
18.14.51 dmytry: lol
18.15.08 hakujin: will you be back today?
18.15.11 dmytry: yes
18.15.23 dmytry: eat and back
18.15.31 firebug: how long do you guys go
18.15.41 dreamer: i need to go for 15 20 mns also
18.15.47 firebug: dymtry.. you rock.. no pun intended
18.15.48 dreamer: 15/20
18.15.50 Armands: 30 minutes?
18.15.56 hakujin: I've got 1 hour & 45min left before the phone is needed
18.16.15 firebug: I have a floor to tile but this is more important
18.16.21 firebug: I will see you back in a few
18.16.48 hakujin: 'k - I'm going to experiment with what we've learned so far
18.24.47 edegiuli: what do you guys think so far?
18.25.24 dmytry: btw, Eric, maybe you'll explain idea of adding something instead of displacing?
18.25.43 edegiuli: sure
18.25.50 hakujin: cool
18.25.53 edegiuli: what else do you plan to talk about?
18.26.11 dmytry: maybe something about distortions
18.26.23 dmytry: but that'll be too long
18.26.32 hakujin: will we get to clouds today?
18.26.52 edegiuli: btw, what is the increase in render time finding intersections when you have a distortion on your input?
18.28.37 dmytry: hard to tell
18.28.47 edegiuli: ok
18.29.06 dmytry: first, it's more time to evaluate, second, function is worse
18.29.13 edegiuli: yes
18.29.24 edegiuli: distortion should only be with noise or fractal with a few octaves
18.29.42 dmytry: but not too long - this thing with text rendered in only 81 min
18.30.28 edegiuli: dmytry can you give an approx date when clouds will be functional again?
18.30.32 dmytry: as about fractals for distortions, you can have many octaves but need to set roughness to 2.something
18.30.38 hakujin: yeah - I'm intersted in the text thing
18.30.47 hakujin: interested
18.30.58 dmytry: i'm unsure..... many things to do
18.31.02 edegiuli: ok
18.31.18 edegiuli: no worries, i have a lot of things to work on..
18.31.52 hakujin: oh, I see - no clouds right now?
18.32.11 edegiuli: they are only half functional
18.32.17 hakujin: OK
18.32.21 hakujin: bummer:(
18.33.10 edegiuli: the construction of clouds (as far as shape is concerned) is similar to surfaces, so time spent playing with surfaces is good practice
18.33.18 edegiuli: also, surfaces are faster to render (naturally)..
18.34.07 dmytry: yes, in either case you need to learn about surfaces first..
18.35.03 hakujin: got ya
18.37.17 woz2002: is the session over ?
18.37.41 Frauke: http://www.deviantart.com/view/17580005/
18.44.13 dreamer: back
18.49.23 edegiuli: dmytry is AFK for a little while
18.49.26 edegiuli: i am going to take over for a bit
18.49.56 edegiuli: say "hey" if you are here and ready
18.50.09 hillrunner: HEY :)
18.50.12 KrummenHacker: I'm here
18.50.14 Frauke: hey
18.50.19 Artistken: running log
18.50.38 Artistken: doing homework
18.51.20 edegiuli: so it looks like just firebug is missing?
18.51.36 edegiuli: armands you here?
18.52.25 Armands: I'm back
18.52.36 edegiuli: ok, just waiting for firebug
18.53.04 edegiuli: http://dmytry.ancientspledge.com/en/mojoworld/session/?C=M;O=D we are going to start from sess_world_1.mjw on that page
18.53.07 edegiuli: everyone download and open!
18.53.14 hakujin: so, what takes the place of Displacements, E? Domain Distortion?
18.53.37 edegiuli: the whole notion of displacement is different
18.53.38 edegiuli: I will explain
18.53.54 hillrunner: ok thanks
18.53.55 edegiuli: for now, here is a little experiment
18.53.59 edegiuli: open that world
18.54.08 edegiuli: open the FG for the Shape
18.54.24 edegiuli: click on that Subtract node
18.54.32 edegiuli: there is a number there, 0.5
18.55.37 edegiuli: put your altitude up to 7km
18.55.50 edegiuli: and try renders with the constant at 0.3, 0.4, 0.5, 0.6, 0.7
18.55.55 edegiuli: little crop renders
18.56.02 edegiuli: keep them all open, and note the differences
18.56.06 hakujin: ok - I'm on it
18.56.15 edegiuli: anyone else goign to try this?
18.56.24 Frauke: yes
18.56.35 hillrunner: what is constant ?
18.57.12 edegiuli: constant = number, in this context
18.57.12 dreamer: i do
18.57.12 edegiuli: click on that subtract node
18.57.12 hillrunner: for substract ?
18.57.12 edegiuli: there is a number 0.5
18.57.12 hillrunner: ok
18.57.12 hillrunner: :)
18.57.12 edegiuli: that is the number we are changing
18.57.30 dmytry: higher values "melt" more
18.57.38 edegiuli: also, for speed of renders, go to the main Volumetrics panel and unclick Traced Shadows
18.57.48 dmytry: yes
18.57.57 hakujin: here's my little experiment: http://users.easystreet.com/buddycat/workShop/v03.jpg
18.58.17 edegiuli: ok, can we all start from the world on the webpage above?
18.58.21 edegiuli: just for consistency
18.59.13 hakujin: I'm there, E
19.00.06 edegiuli: ok, so if you do several renders, what you'll see is that they all look similar, but the size of the balls changes. in fact, the size of the balls is inversely proportional that number that we put in there
19.00.12 edegiuli: so, what does that mean?
19.00.21 dmytry: Haku: You added 2 noises i suppose? That is what is cooler than displacement
19.00.51 hakujin: yes, Dmy - one in World Position one in Surface Position
19.01.31 dmytry: better don't use "surface position" because only "world position" is guaranteed to work in surface
19.01.43 edegiuli: as we add a positive number (say 0.7, compared to 0.5) we are increasing the "temperature" of everything
19.01.45 hakujin: D: OK, thanks
19.01.47 edegiuli: so there is less "ice"
19.01.50 hillrunner: at 0.8, shadows are very sharp
19.02.06 hakujin: yeah, any way to soften those shadows?
19.02.25 dmytry: currently no way
19.02.45 hakujin: what is 'Traced Shadows'?
19.03.10 dmytry: Raytraced shadows. Other shadows currently is not working
19.03.19 hakujin: got ya
19.03.24 edegiuli: firebug you around yet?
19.03.41 hakujin: she's still logging, E - go ahead
19.05.00 edegiuli: i am going to start something different, I'm waiting for her to come
19.05.04 edegiuli: 5 more min
19.05.05 hakujin: ok
19.05.14 Armands: ;-)
19.05.26 hakujin: I've got 55 more minutes of life
19.05.53 Armands: 5 minutes to come? ok.. no probs
19.06.00 hakujin: we want to move to Canada...
19.06.09 hakujin: Prob BC
19.06.17 hakujin: maybe Alberta
19.06.44 KrummenHacker: BC?
19.06.53 Armands: British C?
19.06.56 hakujin: British Columbia
19.07.09 hakujin: I'll have to sneak in...
19.07.22 hakujin: they don't accept bums in canada
19.07.32 hakujin: but my wife can get in
19.08.14 hakujin: I'll float-in on a log
19.08.22 edegiuli: hehe
19.08.26 edegiuli: OK, i am going to start now
19.08.28 hakujin: maybe they'll think I'm a walrus
19.08.29 edegiuli: no more talking!! :)
19.08.44 edegiuli: I am going to number steps so that nobody misses anything
19.09.18 edegiuli: 1) download sess_world_1.mjw from http://dmytry.ancientspledge.com/en/mojoworld/session/?C=M;O=D
19.09.26 KrummenHacker: done
19.09.31 hakujin: check
19.09.48 edegiuli: 2) pause RTR, open sky editor. UNclick Traced Shadows
19.10.14 hakujin: 'k
19.10.17 KrummenHacker: done
19.10.31 edegiuli: 3) change altitude to 7.5km, then turn on RTR
19.10.47 dmytry: it is important to turn on RTR
19.10.55 KrummenHacker: done
19.10.58 hakujin: rodger
19.11.11 edegiuli: 4) turn on Crop Render
19.11.33 edegiuli: 5) make sure render setting is on medium, do a test render, shouldn't take too long
19.11.35 dmytry: aka Zip Render
19.11.49 edegiuli: oops i mean not zip render
19.11.55 edegiuli: i mean crop window
19.12.00 edegiuli: i don't know what it's called
19.12.04 edegiuli: leave zip render off
19.12.13 dmytry: hm..... i don't know too
19.12.17 KrummenHacker: My god, it's full of balls!
19.12.33 edegiuli: i think the zip render is too small to see necessary details
19.13.01 edegiuli: so, your render should show a bunch of balls, maybe with their heads cut off ;)
19.13.09 hakujin: ouch
19.13.24 edegiuli: 6) open the sky editor again, expand 0 > Surface
19.13.39 edegiuli: 7) click on Shape, open the FG
19.14.06 KrummenHacker: k
19.14.11 edegiuli: 8) you'll see 4 nodes: world position, noise, subtract, input
19.14.24 edegiuli: 9) right now we have a sparse convolution noise creating our balls
19.15.38 edegiuli: 10) click on subtract, change 0.5 to 0.8. this will make our balls not fill up so much space
19.16.03 edegiuli: 11) now, what we're going to do is turn these plain old boring balls into fancy asteroids
19.16.25 edegiuli: 12) so, we want to add some fractal detail. but how do we do that? Well..
19.16.48 edegiuli: 13) add a new "Add" node, and connect its output to Input
19.17.18 edegiuli: 14) Connect the left input of the add to the output of Subtract
19.17.40 edegiuli: firebug: do want to catch up? it should only take a few min
19.17.56 edegiuli: is everyone following so far?
19.18.07 Frauke: yes
19.18.09 KrummenHacker: yes
19.18.14 edegiuli: anyone having trouble?
19.18.24 firebug: I will have to read back to follow .
19.18.26 hakujin: ah - I was experimenting and was trying to Add before the Subtract node
19.18.28 firebug: continue
19.18.32 edegiuli: ok
19.18.37 edegiuli: i'm going to continue, no more talking >:)
19.19.08 edegiuli: 15) if you do a test render, you'll see it's the same as before, we haven't changed anything (this is obvious for those that are experienced with FGs)
19.19.25 edegiuli: 16) Create a new Monofractal node, and change it's roughness to 0.20
19.19.35 firebug: could you post a recent file that would be easier.. and then I can keep log and go back
19.20.04 edegiuli: hold on
19.20.09 firebug: thanks
19.20.15 firebug: sorry to be the dependant one
19.20.48 hakujin: It's cool - as long as I'm around, they have a whipping-boy
19.21.00 firebug: That is good to know, :-)
19.21.20 edegiuli: http://individual.utoronto.ca/edegiuli/sess_world_1.1.mjw is the current status
19.21.27 firebug: thanks
19.21.52 hillrunner: It's time for dinner, ciao everybody
19.21.55 edegiuli: ok, i'm continuing
19.21.59 hillrunner: I am away.
19.22.01 dreamer: bye
19.22.01 hakujin: see ya, h:)
19.22.21 edegiuli: 17) in your Monofractal, change Basis Function from None to Gradient
19.22.43 edegiuli: connect the input of the Monofractal to that World Position we have already
19.22.49 edegiuli: 18) connect the input of the Monofractal to that World Position we have already
19.23.14 edegiuli: 19) for our asteroids, we want them to be roughly spherical, but with some distortion
19.23.39 edegiuli: 20) our Noise that is creating balls has a LFS of 1000, so make the LFS for our Monofractal 200
19.24.16 edegiuli: 21) connect the output of the monofractal to the right input of the Add node, and do a test render
19.24.29 edegiuli: 22) you'll see crazy detail - our balls don't look like balls at all anymore!
19.24.41 edegiuli: 23) but that's not what i want - clearly the distortion we added is too much
19.25.00 edegiuli: 24) this is the crucial part - change the Result Scale of our Monofractal to 0.2
19.25.26 edegiuli: 25) now our objects look more round again - what happened?
19.26.05 edegiuli: 26) what happened is that we decreased the amount of distortion
19.26.22 edegiuli: anybody not following?
19.26.45 edegiuli: 27) do a test render again and you'll see what i mean
19.27.24 dmytry: note: if any one gets artifacts, set Surface's "reliability" to higher value
19.27.30 edegiuli: 28) so, how did i know to change result scale to 0.2?
19.27.48 hakujin: I'm afraid to talk - I might get my knuckles rapped with a ruler...
19.27.51 Armands: Somehow downloaded world renders slower than Logo 7 example :(
19.27.55 edegiuli: 29) the reason is that the ratio of Largest Feature Scale to Result Scale for each component of my Shape should be roughly equal
19.28.03 edegiuli: Armands: did you turn off Traced Shadows?
19.28.05 dmytry: hmmm
19.28.13 Armands: Yepp...
19.28.15 dmytry: logo 7, that one with text?
19.28.20 edegiuli: and move to 7.5km altitude?
19.28.21 Armands: yes
19.28.30 dmytry: logo 7 have 3 isosurfaces and one atmos
19.28.35 dmytry: strange
19.28.37 Armands: 7.5? ok, i'm now at 4.5
19.28.39 dreamer: it renders pretty fast here
19.28.45 edegiuli: it'll be faster at 7.5km altitude
19.28.59 dmytry: maybe you haven't set roughness to 0.2
19.29.10 hakujin: it's sess_world_1
19.29.21 hakujin: not logo 7
19.29.46 edegiuli: http://individual.utoronto.ca/edegiuli/sess_world_1.2.mjw is the current status
19.29.57 Armands: nevermind, please continue :) Will investigate that later.. yes haku, I previously render logo 7 and now ses world 1
19.30.11 firebug: YES
19.30.14 dmytry: isosurfaces need different roughness than lands.... like if you try land with roughness set to 0.8
19.30.17 edegiuli: ok, i'm going to continue
19.30.17 firebug: and MOJO
19.30.25 firebug: just trying to catch up
19.30.27 hakujin: shhh...
19.31.15 edegiuli: 30) so, for our Noise that created our balls, the Largest Feature Size(LFS) was 1000 and the Result Scale(RS) was 1. so LFS/RS = 1000.
19.31.31 edegiuli: 31) for Monofractal, LFS = 200, RS =0.2, so LFS/RS = 1000
19.31.52 hakujin: ?
19.32.05 edegiuli: see 29) Haku
19.32.21 edegiuli: everybody following?
19.32.28 dreamer: yes
19.32.28 KrummenHacker: yes
19.32.37 hakujin: no - 200 x .2 = 1000?
19.32.47 dmytry: 200/0.2
19.32.48 edegiuli: 200/0.2
19.33.14 edegiuli: 32) this idea is something totally different from regular mojoworld stuff!
19.33.15 hakujin: lost
19.33.37 edegiuli: 33) i still haven't given the motivation for my Rule of LFS/RS
19.33.46 edegiuli: 34) for now, accept it as gospel
19.34.02 hakujin: OK
19.34.13 dmytry: just try with different values
19.34.57 hakujin: I'm not a math person / = what operator?
19.35.06 dreamer: divide
19.35.08 edegiuli: "/" = division
19.35.10 hakujin: ah
19.35.10 hakujin: OK
19.35.36 dmytry: imagine you are making shoreline to have some shape
19.36.14 hakujin: I think I'm following now - pray continue...
19.36.16 edegiuli: 35) so let's do some easy stuff now. our asteroids look pretty cool. there is still the "flat edges" problem, but Dmytry already told us how to fix that, so we'll ignore it for now
19.36.17 dmytry: you made islands with sparse convolution and want shoreline without many small islands and stuff
19.38.47 edegiuli: ok, continuing
19.39.04 edegiuli: 36) now we'll apply our regular knowledge of MW to these new objects
19.39.40 edegiuli: 37) right now, the fractal nature of our asteroids is determined by the basis function of our Monofractal
19.39.47 edegiuli: 38) now, we have a Gradient, which is nice
19.40.10 edegiuli: 39) switch it to Ridged Gradient, and change the LFS of the Monofractal to 400
19.40.15 edegiuli: do a test render
19.40.34 edegiuli: 40) do a test render, it'll look similar, but with "lines" caused by the ridged gradient
19.40.50 edegiuli: 41) now change the Result Scale of the Monofractal to -0.2 and do another test render
19.40.58 edegiuli: 42) now the rocks will look very angular
19.41.09 edegiuli: 43) this is also caused by the ridges in ridged gradient!
19.41.18 edegiuli: 44) why is there a big difference with that negative sign?
19.41.33 edegiuli: 45) it's similar to how it works in regular mojoworld
19.41.39 edegiuli: 46) the ridges are either "in" or "out"
19.41.49 edegiuli: everyone following?
19.42.02 dreamer: yes
19.42.06 firebug: no but it is too far for me to catch up
19.42.12 edegiuli: ok
19.42.19 edegiuli: KH, armands, Frauke, all following?
19.42.30 edegiuli: , haku
19.42.32 edegiuli: any questions?
19.42.35 hakujin: yes sir
19.42.52 KrummenHacker: changed wrong parameter. will be ready in a few seconds. please continue
19.43.11 KrummenHacker: ok
19.43.32 Armands: yes, thanks!
19.43.37 hakujin: I'm cool
19.44.13 edegiuli: ok, i'm just thinking what to do next :)
19.44.26 hakujin: can you add Domain Distortion the 'regular' Mojo way, at the Position Parameter?
19.44.36 edegiuli: ok, try this:
19.44.54 edegiuli: 47) change Result scale to 0.2, and change basis function to Sparse Convolution
19.45.03 edegiuli: 48) now we get little craters on our asteroids
19.45.20 edegiuli: Haku: yes you can
19.45.41 edegiuli: i haven't tried that yet, but expect that it will be slower than doing this this way, and not much different
19.45.46 Armands: btw, there always is cool idea to change World Position to altitude for noise :) We will got some UFOs :)
19.45.48 edegiuli: Dmytry: comments?
19.46.59 dmytry: When we add something to our blobs, we kind of change our "temperature" in world
19.47.05 hakujin: You'll make a great University Professor, Eric
19.47.16 edegiuli: hehe
19.47.56 dmytry: Sparse convolution works as hot spots
19.48.07 dmytry: Spherical hot spots
19.48.30 dmytry: (imagine noise preview is a Infra Red scanner's view
19.50.01 hakujin: where is 'text3.png'?
19.51.29 hakujin: I looked in 'session'
19.51.34 edegiuli: does anyone have anything they don't understand, or any questions?
19.52.23 dmytry: heat vision's link: http://www.engineering.ualberta.ca/images/night_vision_deer_180.jpg
19.53.00 hakujin: I can't load logo_7 without text3.png & I can't locate it
19.54.47 edegiuli: KH: any questions?
19.55.02 KrummenHacker: No. Everything is ok,
19.55.19 KrummenHacker: playing with 2 mw instances.
19.55.28 dmytry: I can upload this text3.png... hold on
19.55.35 hakujin: thanks:)
19.55.38 edegiuli: ok here is one more interesting thing:
19.55.57 edegiuli: 49) what if we don't want asteroids everywhere? what if we want them in clumps?
19.56.29 edegiuli: 50) add a new Add node between Input and the other Add node
19.56.41 edegiuli: 51) connect the right part of the new Add to the output of the old Add
19.56.46 hakujin: hurry - 3 minutes
19.56.54 edegiuli: 52) Create a new Noise, and a new Curve
19.57.08 edegiuli: 53) connect World Position to Noise, Noise to Curve, Curve to new add (left input)
19.57.53 edegiuli: 54) Noise LFS = 10000., Basis Function = Gradient
19.58.09 hakujin: got it, Dmy!
19.58.15 edegiuli: 55) Curve input range = (-1, 1), beyond input clamp
19.59.36 hakujin: Thanks a million, Dmytry & Eric - you guys rock! See everyone on Wednesday at eVox! So nice to see you Armands - you're my hero! Bye all!
19.59.40 edegiuli: 56) output range = (-2, 5)
20.00.10 edegiuli: 57) test render, you should see rocks only in clumps
20.00.26 KrummenHacker: cool!
20.00.56 edegiuli: 58) how did that work? we added a large scale noise so that in some places, it increased the temperature so much that there are no rocks, and in other places, left it around the same
20.02.16 firebug: That's very cool, I will have to follow the log. How did you know that our arches thing had a asteroid?
20.02.41 edegiuli: firebug: i can do arches with this too
20.03.10 firebug: we will have to talk later
20.03.14 dmytry: and i did texts with it :-)
20.03.23 firebug: I want to know how
20.03.25 firebug: what are texts
20.03.40 firebug: what
20.03.46 dmytry: text in this image that invites to session
20.03.52 edegiuli: 59) input range = (-0.4, 0), output range = (0, 5) works nicely
20.04.13 firebug: I do not understand
20.04.28 edegiuli: dmytry posted an image with text made from an isosurface
20.04.48 dmytry: http://dmytry.ancientspledge.com/en/mojoworld/volumetrics_worlds/logo_7_jq90.jpg
20.04.49 firebug: oh.. where is it.. i came late
20.04.52 firebug: thanks
20.05.03 Frauke: I am back.
20.05.09 edegiuli: OK, I am done for now. if anyone has questions, shoot
20.05.31 firebug: you rock sir.
20.05.42 Armands: Thank You very much Eric :)
20.05.55 KrummenHacker: No questions, yet. Will play a bit, but have to go back to roads.
20.06.08 KrummenHacker: Thanks Eric and Dmytry.
20.06.12 Armands: Road over isosurfaces?
20.06.14 edegiuli: no problem
20.06.18 edegiuli: hehe
20.06.24 KrummenHacker: why not?
20.06.34 Armands: from asteroid to asteroid?
20.06.55 KrummenHacker: Problem is where are the asteroids.?
20.06.59 dmytry: Many thanks :-) great idea of asteroid craters using sparse convolutions... looks very realistic
20.07.42 Armands: how the road knows what is isosurface? :)
20.07.57 edegiuli: KH: we're now in space, we need space highways!
20.08.03 edegiuli: no more cars
20.08.18 KrummenHacker: This is already solved. Use Avion!
20.08.20 edegiuli: we need transparent tubes going through space or something
20.08.34 KrummenHacker: Could be done with KH_Road
20.09.31 Armands: We can made net of roads with just one isosurface...
20.09.55 Armands: ridged gradient or something
20.10.16 Frauke: hexagonal lattice
20.10.39 Armands: Dmytry< I will look why render went so slow at session world one.. later, after few days
20.11.26 Armands: I guess, some parameters are different..
20.11.49 dmytry: maybe roughness different
20.11.50 Frauke: I am away.
20.12.07 dmytry: it can confuse this adaptive thingy
20.12.09 KrummenHacker: Dmytry, I have strange horizontal black artifacts that are aligned with the rendering blocks.
20.12.19 dmytry: increase reliability
20.12.29 dmytry: and turn RTR on
20.12.35 dmytry: does step scale jump?
20.13.06 KrummenHacker: reliability already 4 rtr on and step scale moving
20.13.07 dmytry: any artifact can be eliminated by increasing reliability...
20.13.14 dmytry: hmm
20.13.25 dmytry: what exactly are you doing KH?
20.13.38 dmytry: if there is discontinuity, it breaks...
20.13.40 firebug: thenks guys... I will leave the log running but I have to go grout a tile floor. goodbye all .
20.14.00 KrummenHacker: No discontinuity. Similar to the previously posted one.
20.14.40 Armands: Looks like Clouds is the case... just created one new for atmosphere with default parameters except density, height and scale... I'm rendering now one cool image :) won't interrupt it
20.15.18 dmytry: hmm
20.15.32 Armands: later :)
20.15.53 dmytry: maybe latest change in that "autoajustments heruistics" broke something....
20.16.06 dmytry: in the past it was ajusting slowly, but well
20.16.41 KrummenHacker: ok. Enough for me. See you!
KrummenHacker has left channel Volumetrics_Isosurfaces
KrummenHacker has left channel MojoCafe
20.17.36 dmytry: for such cases, you can turn off "adaptive" and decrease step scale about 2 times and 2 times again until you get good image...
davidflame: Lol ...you guys still going
20.19.49 Armands: I'm just thinking, that Slav will be in ave - what a cities can be made with isosurfaces :)
davidflame: Just popped back to grab the log
20.20.00 dmytry: :-)
20.20.06 dmytry: and hex-lattice...
20.20.25 dmytry: that "skyscrapers" is done with it
davidflame: Another weekend vox session on hex lattice ;)
davidflame: <grin>
20.21.19 dmytry: and flowers too
davidflame: lol
davidflame: Main session finished ...can I save log yet?
20.22.05 dmytry: BTW, i uploaded missing file for logo 7
20.22.32 dmytry: http://dmytry.ancientspledge.com/en/mojoworld/volumetrics_worlds/
20.22.38 dmytry: text_3.png
20.22.53 dmytry: yes, save log
davidflame: great
davidflame: thanks to the two of you dmytry and eric :)
20.23.27 dmytry: You're welcome :-)
20.24.00 Armands: Speaking about hex-latices.. that logo 7 world has one for terrain texture, but I can't see it works?
20.24.16 dmytry: oops
davidflame: Pump him for another weekend vox session ...hehe!
20.24.33 dmytry: that's because i loaded some old planet to get some textures
20.25.03 Armands: I see
20.25.30 dmytry: and most importantly, camera position
20.25.49 dmytry: okay, session is officially over....